We are Stardust...

“I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestionable ability of man to elevate his life by a conscious endeavor” - Walden, Henry David Thoreau

"Yes, not only humans but also every other organism in the cosmos, as well as the planets or moons on which they thrive, would not exist but for the wreckage of spent stars. So you're made of detritus. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?" - Living Space, Death By Black Hole, Neil deGrasse Tyson



Robyn Durrell Burns
I believe in what created the universe,the stars,and Carl Saegan.Again I say,Bernie,your going to tell me,or Carl's is gonna explain,how a star created dna,our unique and individual fingerprints,our Brain,(CONSCIENCE),our hearts and our reproductive systems.I have listened to what his theories are.Will not,ever,ever,not for a second,believe these ridiculous theories.I don't care what he says.Here you can believe what this guy says,which sounds Crazy,but you can't explain what came here before all these things.Who or what created the first life force?Carl, nor you, can explain why so many experience the same vision,when having a "near death "expierence.It is not lucid dreams! What Carl says does not add up,any of it! A star created our flesh and bones?Pleeeeease Bernie,Carl,Give me a break!

Flash Kellish
you're right Robyn, of course all these guys are lying. and because we don't have the answers to everything, it stands to reason a god poofed everything into existence.

you believe what you want to believe, regardless of the evidence that contradicts your beliefs and much of your comments. THAT my friend is blind faith.

this statement alone //What Carl says does not add up,any of it!// proves to me 1 of 2 things, either you have never listened to anything Carl SAGAN has said, or you are being willfully ignorant in making such claims.

i'd say both.

sorry, but it's true.




Robyn Durrell Burns
I think that of you to.You have never to my satisfaction explained dna, finger prints,conscience,and the rest of it.So basically,you are going to tell me everyone who has had "near death"experience,and had simular visions,that they are all lying too?See,it works both ways.This was brought up a while back,and I'm not going to go round and round on this.I don't CARE about the theories.Did you think I would read all this and go Poof,now I believe Bernie?



Gerald Bogan
Robyn, Dr Sagan didn't just suddenly one day dream that stuff up. He studied these things all his life and corroberated with other very accomplished scientists all over the world to come to these conclusions. These are the same scientists who formulated the theories that make such things possible as magnetic ressonance imaging, electroencephalography, X-ray spectroscopy, genome sequencing, planetary exploration, as well as numerous theories that allow you to send real time communication data thousands of miles using electro-magnetic radiation travelling through amorphous silicon dioxide fiber to emerge at it's destination completely legible (some more than yours) and translated automatically into numerous languages of one's choosing. These scientists know what they are talking about. Obviously you don't.


Flash Kellish
why not? your god went poof and all this was here right? there is a BIG difference between scientist's careers, reputations, and theories and the stories of humans who have had delusional experiences brought about by traumatic situations.

i know you don't care about theories, because scientific theories deal with EVIDENCE and FACTS, things you obviously don't care about either. no Robyn, your faith is what is important because i choose not to do your research for you and present evidence that would answer your questions as thoroughly as science can today and that you would still scoff at.

btw, a little help for you, let me explain what a scientific theory is...

//A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. Therefore, theories can be disproven. Basically, if evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, then the hypothesis can become accepted as a good explanation of a phenomenon. One definition of a theory is to say it's an accepted hypothesis.//

so though it can be disproven, it takes EVIDENCE to do so as it has more evidence to support it being fact than there is evidence to dismiss it as not.

you keep trying to get me to explain to you how the mind works, and i keep explaining to you that just because my knowledge of the brain is limited, it doesn't mean someone somewhere doesn't know or that your 'god did it' if know one does yet. it also is ironic that you are attempting to 'get me' by using the lack of knowledge about the brain, yet you have no problem attempting to use extraordinary circumstances created by the brain in times of great stress as 'evidence' to support your faith. would you really put your life on the line based on the testimony of someone who was most likely hallucinating? you are going to base your beliefs on the tales of human experience in times of distress rather than the evidence of reality and the laws of physics?

which is more likely Robyn? that all those who have 'shared' experiences are hallucinating? or that they are telling the truth? and which is more believable? that vast majority of the greatest scientists and minds on this planet are lying? or telling the truth based on as much evidence as possible because their very livelihood depends on it?

any schmo can make up a story about how they "saw god", they don't have to support it with anything but "believe me because i said it" and 2000 years of ignorance. meanwhile, if a scientist says that we "are made of stars", they better be able to support it with evidence...and you know what?

they do.

just beacuse you ignore it doesn't make it any less true.

evidence + LOGIC=truth



Christopher Hand
‎@ Robyn Durrel Burns - You are far more likely able to be able to understand the concepts of DNA, fingerprints, consciousness (which is different than Conscience, but that can be explained to), and "the rest of it" by looking up the individual experts who know about such things than by trying to convince someone who is not a scientist to explain the views.

However, with that being said, the very basic description for the quote I posted is as follows:

[Something Starts Everying] - This is where we primarily differ in opinion. You believe (I presume) a "god" did this. I do not. Let's agree to disagree and just say "Something Started It All."

Now, moving beyond that, Neil expertly and concisely explains the theory behind the idea that "We are made of stardust" in his book "Death by Black Hole." I suggest buying it or borrowing it from a library. It is easy to read and has great concepts in it written by a gentleman that is not satirical or angry at religion.

Continuing, "Something Started It All." What then?

Well, according to Mr. deGrasse Tyson, the Big Bang is predicated on the idea that a supernova of such extreme proportion exploded outward, sending out the materials of the universe.

Lots of time goes by.

Individual stars begin to form as Hydrogen (the most abundant element in the known universe) begins to collect together, bonding in chemical processes that are quite easily replicated in a lab. Eventually, over a very, very long time (millions of years) these Hydrogen molecules bind so closely and in such quantity that they begin to collapse on themselves. Pressure creates heat. Heat expands the material. These molecules collapsed together until they created so much heat that they expanding back outwards in explosive manner.

When they explode back outwards, their molecules and bonds change to create Helium. You may notice that Helium is the next on the Periodic table.

This process continues again and again and again until it reaches a stabilizing point when crafting, I believe (referencing his book) Iron.

You know what, I will simply just refernce what he has to say on the matter below:


Christopher Hand
‎"A star's core, after having converted its hydrogen supply into helium will next fuse helium into carbon, then carbon to oxygen, oxygen to neon, and so forth up to iron. To successively fuse this sequence of heavier and heavier elements requires higher and higher temperatures for the nuclei to overcome their natural repulsion. Fortunately, this happens naturally because at the end of each intermediate stage, the star's energy source temporarily shuts off, the inner regions collapse, the temperature rises, and the next pathway of fusion kicks in. But there is just one problem. The fusion of iron absorbs energy rather than releases it. This is very bad for the star because it can now no longer support itself against gravity. The star immediately collapses without resistance, which force the temperature to rise so rapidly that a titanic explosion ensues as the star blows its guts to smithereens. During the explosion, the star's luminosity can increase a billionfold. We call them supernovas, although I have always felt that the term 'super-duper novas' would be more appropriate.

Throughout the the supernova explosion, the availability of neutrons, protons, and energy enable elements to be created in many different ways. By combining 1) the well-tested tenets of quantum mechanics, 2) the physics of explosions, 3) the latest collision cross-sections 4) the varied processes by which elements can transmutate into one another, and 5) the basics of stellar evolutionary theory, Burbidge, Burbidge, Fowler, and Hoyle decisively implicated supernova explosions as the primary source of all elements heavier than hydrogen and helium in the universe."

Note, Carl Sagan did not come up with this process. He simply extrapolates on it quite elegantly.



Christopher Hand
Really, this argument comes down to one simple conversation:

Do you believe in Evidence as capable of explaining concepts in the Universe? Do you believe that we are capable of testing said evidence and coming up with scientific theory? If not, you will not accept anything based on science. If so, you will.

Caveat: I have to assume that you are willing to accept SOME evidence or you would quite simply ignore basic reason, be unable to function in society, and not be able to understand the simple concept that walking off a building is dangerous. I merely want to expand your acceptance into a higher realm. You can test all the theories yourself with proper training. That's the beauty of science.




Gerald Bogan Awesome post Christopher. This elemental process is termed nucleosynthesis and it should be noted that theory holds that the universe would be required to cycle through at least two generations of stars in order to form the elements that make up the rocky planets such as our own.



Christopher Hand I definitely didn't come up with it. I've just been reading this awesome book recently and reviewing interviews/debates/conversations with Neil deGrasse Tyson. It's phenomenal.
3 hours ago · Like
Gerald Bogan And this is how we learn, at least some of us. Kudos
3 hours ago · Like
Christopher Hand It makes me quite excited. I'm an English Major and I am seriously considering going back and attempting a second bachelor's in physics after I finish this one just to get a different side of things.
3 hours ago · Like
Gerald Bogan You go man! English major eh. Please don't scutinize this "flunky's" posts too carefully. Lol



Robyn Durrell Burns
Gerald,if this were the absolute case,and you use the term theories! there is still many more believers in the world,that are not convinced of science,THEORIES or Mr Sagan,I am one.I am,and Bernie knows this.Did you or he think that despite these,I'd say,up, that's it,I'm convinced,now I don't believe any more.Still haven't heard any explanation of "near death",and why so many say they have had the same experience.God explained why men are to procreate longer,and why they were designed that way.What is Mr.Sagan's theory on this,and why and how are men and woman made differently,dna,CONSCIENCE!etc?.Does Mr.Sagan explain all of these down to the minute detail?Mr.Bogan,believe me I have taken time,read,and watched many shows about these different theories,and Mr.Sagan.Yes they are compelling.But I ask the question,where did the universe come from?We all would have had to have been there from the beginning,and not just take Mr.Sagan's words for it,to know the real truth.If that again was the case,then more would stop believing,and that hasn't happened,has it?Sorry, and I'm not ignorant.I'm not convinced.I am,and always will be a BELIEVER.That's it,and I am not going to plead my case.There is no point in you pleading yours either.Bernie and I have gone around on all of this.Like I told him,it doesn't matter what you believe,this is what I Believe.That is my perogative.(Not sure about spelling)Good night gentlemen,I have to get up a 5am!



Christopher Hand
‎@ Robyn Thank you for effectively answering my question. You are not, in fact, willing to accept information based on evidence unless it pertains to your religion. This means that there can be no real discussion.

No matter how much evidence is laid before you, no matter how compelling the argument, you are instead going to fall back on the argument that words written, nearly 2,000 years prior, by men who had no knowledge of what we are talking about, the medium in which we are talking about it, or any real knowledge about science whatsoever is more credible.

This is your decision. It is an unfortunate one, but still, it is your decision. The only true regret here is that you are likely to teach your children not to "trust science" or listen to "theories" and you will, quite frankly, be lying to them about the nature of the world.

As a quick aside, you do realize that the word Theory, in science, doesn't just mean "random guess that we can't figure out" right? It refers to a tried and tested method that applies to everything and has not, as of yet, been disproved. It utilizes far more data and evidence than you could possibly imagine.

If you wish to test a scientific theory, I highly suggest tempting Gravity by finding something as tall as possible and examining firsthand.




Flash Kellish
‎//God explained why men are to procreate longer,and why they were designed that way.//

i'm sorry...but what does this even mean?

//We all would have had to have been there from the beginning,and not just take Mr.Sagan's words for it,to know the real truth//

and yet you take the bible verbatim...hmmmm

//If that again was the case,then more would stop believing,and that hasn't happened,has it?//

uh, yes...actually it has, and moreso everyday. but once again you are either unaware of it or ignorant to it.

//I'm not ignorant.I'm not convinced.I am,and always will be a BELIEVER//

which means trying to convince a stone wall would be just as possible. at least a stone wall has a good excuse.




Gerald Bogan
Robyn you take a very child-like approach to these arguments. Lets be clear about something. Science does not negate gods. What science does is explain the natural world with no concern watsoever with the supernatural. Your supposed rejection of scientific achievement is more than a little pretentious if you use modern medicine, communicate through various electronic devices, find your way using GPS, or eat processed food available through advanced agricultural techniques.

Think about this for just a minute. "God" hasn't interacted directly with humans since claims made during biblical times. How do you or anyone know anything about "God"? Through Biblical teachings right? The Bible claims leprosy can be cured by the killing of doves and a lamb and anointing the leper in their blood. You know this is ridiculous. The Bible claims to produce spotted (increased worth) livestock, one need but place a striped stick in the pregnant mothers' view. You know better. The sun stops in the sky? No it doesn't-ever! Move mountains with faith? How many times have you seen that done? What I'm getting at here is the Bible isn't a reliable source of information. So where did your "idea" of God come from? You made it up! Your God is exactly who you want him to be. Someone to turn to in times of strife. Someone to promise this isn't all there is. Some people need this assurance and I understand. The last thing I want is to convince you otherwise. The problem with "beliefs" you see, is not you, as an individual. You seem harmless enough. It is with those who would impose their version along with all the doctrinal ideology on the rest of the populace if given an inch. This is why I and others seem judgemental and condescending toward unsupported assertions. Just as the above posters pointed out there will yet be another generation of "believers" indoctrinated to the worlds' various religious factions, where atrocities will continue, children will be enslaved and abused and innocent people will die, all in the name of pleasing some fictitional deity.

It is time for this to stop!




Christopher Hand
Absolutely eloquent, Mr. Bogan.

The primary issue, Robyn (and others) is not that atheists or secularists or scientists are trying to remove your faith or repeal it or in any way diminish the feeling that you get by having faith. The issue is that you value, along with that faith, a book and literal words/ideas from that book that are out-dated and verifiable as wrong.

What's more, those ideas harm others and it is hypocritical to state that you do not agree with "science" because of your faith. The two are unrelated in terms of what they are supposed to accomplish.

For example, I can achieve a feeling of love, loyalty, trust and happiness, wonder and awe, humility and outright rage all without scientific backing (though most of those emotions can easily be explained away when I am experiencing them I am generally NOT focused on science). I have faith - faith in human beings and faith that is tested by observable condition (I know if I can trust someone or if someone is loyal by observing their actions).

I have chosen not to need a god to explain or not feel fear of death. I have the notion that I am "one with the Universe" (yes, even you!) and that to the Universe I will return. My death will be just like what I felt before I existed (was born) - nothingness.

It is the life we live that matters, not the death that we prepare to face.